Workflow possible with the Panasonic HMC150?

[JohnKleban]

Hey Jonathon,

Say, after some more research and really looking into this "rolling shutter" issue created by cmos chip cameras, I've come to the conclusion (at least for my needs as doing weddings almost 100% of the time), I won't buy anything other than a CCD camera. The rolling shutter issue is a deal breaker, hands down. That, combined with the "whip pan" side to side motions of watching your footage slant, I also find unacceptable. I've sent an email to Sony telling them that I will not buy their cameras if they continue to pursue cmos chips; and I did get a reply that things in their support group were being forwarded.

I would love that Panasonic, but for use with my Prestige, I think the work-arounds would just add too much time and make every evening after a shoot seem like a long chore.

If you haven't see this clip yet (see below), watch this, the Panasonic HMC 150 kills the Sony Z5 - low light is about the same, but watch how annoying the rolling shutter issue is with the Z5 - and for weddings, I get crazy photographers snapping shots all the time - which would ruin the processional, recessional, first dance, dances with parents, speeches, etc. - useless for weddings in my opinion - this half frame flash recording makes flashes stand out more, like bright white bands flicking on the screen, very un-natural - UGLY. And, if you like to do some slow-motion on your stuff in post, the rolling shutter issue is even worse with flashes. Shame on Sony for going the cheap way out - I won't support them as long as they use cmos chips in their cameras. At the end of this clip, watch how bad stuff flags with cmos.

Click the link below, then click on the words, "click to play"

http://www.trainingvideographers.com/tipsandtricks.html

[ShadowVision]

I completely understand what you're saying. Like I say, I would have purchased the Panasonic if I was certain that the S4KP would have handled it and the tape archive issue was resolved. Seems like SD card is great now.

As for that one blur shot, you're completely right. But keep in mind that that was shot with the 30p mode and you get a little more of that with that setting. Also, there is something about HD that makes panning more blurry. I own three Sony's with the CMOS chips and the other two are single chip.

The cheap shoulder mounted single chip Sony is really pretty cool for my golf course work. I use a circular polarizer and it shoots just in interlace. I'm able to shoot 4 mp stills while shooting a golf course. This is very important to my work. I have decent stills and video simultaneously.

Here's a golf course project I did from cradle to grave (website, stills, and video): http://fairwaysofcanton.net/

The video was shot with my old DVX100. But every still was taken with the Sony. I went back for the client and re-shot the course in HD and recut the project for DVD. The HD footage even in SD was terrific.

But you're exactly right about the shutter. When I do red carpet stuff there is some issue with flashes. Here's a shoot with the FX1000 where there were photos being taken: http://www.einsiders.com/features/colum ... rticle=451

Two things here: (1) the above show was an edit on the S4KP before I realized that going from HD to DVD with Arabesk really doesn't work (you really should downcovert to SD in order to keep the contrast more true and preserve the aspect, notice the weird aspect to that show); (2) the interview with Jason Ritter (the late John Ritter's son) contains a couple flashes from my buddy snapping away.

In the context of what I do, I can't complain with the results I'm getting. I'm aware of the issues, but there are some advantages to CMOS from what I'm told that overcomes CCD issues.

Now, I did notice that the new JVC handheld "pro" camera is a CCD camera. Maybe they've stayed with CCD for the reasons you expose here. I have agonized over the move from Panasonic (I actually sold my old DVX to make the move) to Sony.

Lastly, when I shot that interview with Chris Stone, I've gotta tell you that his Z7U is a mighty impressive camera.

[ShadowVision]

The one camera you've not explored is the HVX200. No one here in Atlanta questions this camera. And until now, it has been out of our reach price wise.

B&H has a used one used for $3700 and new for $4600. It shocks me how quickly the prices on these cameras fell.

I've not heard anyone on our forum talk about the work flow for the HVX (or even the EX1 for that matter).

Seems like the HVX is a steal right now. A friend of mine just shot a great short called Last Bullet with the HVX and lenses. I've seen it projected many times in theaters and it looks very filmlike. In that film, there were explosions and gun shots. I noticed no artifacting problems.

Note that my understanding is that when you record to P2 card you get something other than HDV but to tape it is HDV. I've not read about that, and if someone can tell me more here, that would be informative.

[JBrooks]

John,

The Sony PMW-EX1 XDCAM camera that I have owned for 5 months now is great. It is definitly the best bang for the buck at around $6,000. The work flow works best if you have a S-4000 or 2000 however, if you shoot in the HDV 1440X1080 mode, you can simply import the footage just as you would with dv tape only you don't have to deal with glitches or drop outs. The FX1000 is a great choice as well.

The HVX200 utilizes old technology compared to the EX1.

The rolling shutter issue really is not that bad considering all of the features and LOW LIGHT perfomance and the 1/2 in imagers the EX1 camera has.

Joel Brooks
Moments in Time Video

[LouBruno]

In the GENERAL TOPICS area there is a discussion in regards to the rolling shutter issue.

The PANASONIC HVX200 is a horror show in low light.....check out the pricing on the P2 cards as well. HDV is SONY's version. DVCPRO HD is Panasonic's version of their own CODEC. True HD at 1920X1080. HVX 200 utilizes a 4:2:2 color sampling. HDV is 4:1:1 DVCPROHD can have a bit rate as high as 40mps for 720P while HDV is 25mps.


NOTE: Canon XL-H1 and XhA-G1 is 4:2:0 sampling but a pure uncompressed signal using HDSDI out put to a monitor. 720P and 1080i.

The new small HD JVC camera is 1/4 inch chips........ .mov files I have my reservations about 1/4 inch chips for HD and will have this camera in my hand shortly.

[ShadowVision]

Can you explain the workflow with the EX1 into the S4KP? Is it real time or is it quicker (like I assume AVCHD works)?

This discussion is really great by the way! That HMC-150 was my first choice but it was a grand more than the FX1000 and it did not have a tape option.

I was at Sundance this year and Sony was pushing the EX3.

I spoke with a cinematographer who shot a movie with Ben Bratt and he used the CineAlta and the EX1. He told me that he was impressed with the EX1 and it match the CineAlta well in post. He did talk about the rolling shutter issue on quick pans and cautioned that you had to be aware of it.

Honestly, I'm very happy with the FX1000. Sound has been a little issue as I have had to use my Beachtek at times. My wireless lavs are great for ENG work, but I go wired for any formal sit down interviews.

I'm aware of the JVC and it's small chips and .mov (codec?). I shot a feature with a DVX and another Panasonic that had 1/4 chips and only did 30p. If I lit things well, I could match the footage. But low light look muddy. Now that I'm an HD guy, I can bear to look at the old footage shot in SD. It just looks rough.

But the DVX gave me terrific color.

I will probably go for an EX1 in a year, but I'm going to work my FX1000 a lot here in the next 12 months. I will be shooting on tape for another year even though I'm itching to go tapeless. My thought is that the Sony SxS cards will come way down in price over the next year. This will make my decision to go to the EX1 easier.