Questions you would ask if you were attending MGT

[dixons]

My S4K being the first Casablanca I'd owned I expected it to 'do what it said on the tin' Some hopes. Some tin. Some price!

I immediately had misgivings when I read the Users Manual. Index? What index? Even the cheapest unit on the market, be it edtor or camcorder, provides the user with this very basic point of reference. For a first time user this shortcoming is a disgrace and one is left to almost constantly thumb back and forwards through the pages looking for help.

I leave the technical issues to others more knowledgeable than me..

dixons

[Jeanton]

Another thing I don't understand is Why we can't use the software ( we payed for in full ) on more than one machine and not have to transfer it to the new machine as the old one becomes useless than for us. Probably most users would still use there old machine ( especially with the S4000 problems) and be still in business or have multiple editing setups.

Your dealers would be also very happy not to have to change all the codes as it could take as long as a day if you have all the software.

How many new customers do you really get a year and how many stop using your products it is just a matter of time that us loyal customers had enough and start looking elsewhere.

[TimKennelly]

Printed.

[TimKennelly]

Ok, this may or may not be a record post length for me as I have blathered on quite a while a few other times over the years, but this has gots to be up there for sure!


The Disclaimer.

I am strictly a user and not an employee of MSUS, nor an official (or unofficial) spokesman for MSUS.

So the following is just my personal opinion and my take on things and not “Official” facts, policies or statements of MSDE or MSUS.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I had several talks with Jörg with and without others during the three and a half days at the MGT.

I gave him the actual print out early on the last day as I had no desire to be standing next to him while he read it.

I mean, many of the questions were asked in absolute frustration (yep, share that feeling) and so were couched in rather less than flattering prose, some even a bit unfairly worded and have you ever actually stood beside Jörg face to face in person?

He has massive shoulders and biceps, heck I think he could beat me to a pulp with his neck alone. LOL

So while we did not go through the list question by question I did talk extensively to him.

First and foremost, I have to say I have the greatest respect for Jörg Sprave, both as a human being and as a CEO.

I flat out like the guy.

I am saying this to YOU guys and gals and not for his benefit as I have mentioned previously he does not monitor this BB.

From the first time I talked with Jörg many years ago through yesterday I have always found him to be an ethical and incredibly candid person.

Now on to the answers from my perspective after talking with Jörg and much more limitedly with Eric:

Jeanton:

On taking money: it’s what company’s do to stay in business, sell equipment.
As you are in Australia neither Jörg or Eric are responsible for how it was handled in your area, but in general if the company cautioned you that this was new equipment on a totally new operating system (Linux) then the onus in general is on you (and me, etc) for deciding to buy it.

If at your end they told you it was all working good, whether in general from whoever is “The Company” in Australia or your dealer, then they were not very ethical in my opinion.

If it was they just did not do a good job of cautioning you about the current actual functionality of the unit when you bought it (which I believe is the case in the USA) then it’s somewhat “buyer beware”, but also shame on the company or dealer to an extent.

However, I think the real problem is the fixes have been taking far longer than any of us expected or are use to.

It has been a combination of problems that has caused this running from Linux a completely new operating format and being a tougher nut to crack than the company initially expected to financial issues of how to assign resources to stay in business and there I cannot really fault the company as I am all in favor of their staying in business. (PS - as an aside, from my talks with Jörg I am feeling really good about that situation now)

Due to seen and unforeseen problems the code writers have not been able to fully focus and/or understand the Bogart issues and that has caused the lack of fixes that has so completely frustrated most of us.

However, I think from what Jörg states they have crested the hill on the various things that have slowed this down and hopefully we should start seeing a cascade of fixes pretty promptly from here on out (Finally!).

The company has to bring out a new model as the PC parts change radically (just a part of technology today) and so they cannot get enough parts to keep making the exact same machine, but have to reserve those for repair and this is pretty normal and typical and thus, new models have to be brought out.

However, they are based on the exact same software so it won’t dilute fixing the software and in fact, I don’t see the company ever having to change basic Operating System software again now that they have moved to Linux as it is an open source, universally accepted format.

They are not ignoring problems, but simply have not been able to get to or solve them all and yes the amount of time it is taking is frustratingly painful and I am feeling that pain and frustration myself, but also on that note this BB is not the proper place to report bugs.

Your official Company and dealer phone numbers, snail mail and e-mail address are the proper place to do that although certainly post them here for all of our own personal benefit as well.

Pricing is relative and the company has stayed pretty consistent in the philosophy they follow on that so to me that is either you “buy” (pun intended) into it or you do not and you move on to another editor with all of it’s strengths, weaknesses, good points and bad points. There is no “perfect” editor.

Unless you live in Germany, Germany is not the proper place in general for you to send an e-mail and more importantly, if you are writing in English to the German company why do you think they would owe you a response. I don’t mean this meanly, but wouldn’t you consider that a bit "I am the center of the universe" type of thinking? LOL

That said, Jörg speaks and writes English very well (pretty darn good in French as well and does Deutsch passably well) and told me he is willing to answer an e-mail sent to him, but do not expect an e-mail in English sent to the company in general to be responded to as few of his employees speak or read it.

On that note, don’t abuse this in volume or written attitude as I don’t know another CEO who would even agree to this, but if you have a genuine question that you think is appropriate to ask feel free.

Realize though company’s have hierarchies and if you live in the USA you really should address questions to MSUS and same with if you live in Australia you should be addressing whatever is in place there.

Of course, if you feel it’s not being addressed or addressed right then it becomes proper to buck it up the chain of command to get an answer or response, but just do so professionally.

I swear people get behind the wheel of a car or onto the internet and do the Jeckle and Hyde thing. Things they would never do in person face to face.

BluRays I am not touching as that is still an industry mess across all the editing platforms. Heck, Mac is still not supporting it yet.

Bob:

The company has about 200,000 generation two machines out there.

They would have to be blind, deaf, dumb and stupid to not offer new software for that type of market base.

Realize, they have gone on to the gen3 machines for two reasons, some of the parts of the gen2 machines are no longer manufactured (the cCube being the most significant one, but not the only one) and two, technology moves on and so they have to acknowledge and react to that, but supporting the existing user base machines just requires software writing so expect Germany to continue to come out with updated Operating Systems with new features because of this. I know for a fact that Smart Edit 9 is under development with the usual fall release target. That does not take up a ton of their code writer’s time as it is such a mature operating system for them being in the eigth generation at this point.

Videoman53:

See Jeanton’s answers, but adjust them to where you live. If you live in the USA like me your questions, demands, bug reports, etc should go to Boulder tech support, Eric Kloor, etc respectfully rather than just to the BB.

As for our system software being made available to put on PCs and laptops, don’t hold your breath. Germany tried that essentially with the Liberty which was a dismal failure for the company (my words, not theirs, but essentially true from a sales volume or financial basis) I know all the arguments against the Liberty regarding their settling on an expensive, exclusive specific laptop, etc and even agree, but the bottom line is Jörg doesn’t see it as a desired market for them so if you absolutely want to be on a laptop or PC this is not the company/editing platform for you.

Another disclaimer, I can see company officials wincing when I say things like that last statement and they wouldn’t, probably wouldn’t or would at least would spin it verbally more diplomatically or try to countersell you on it, but these are just my opinions and not theirs. LOL

And to be clear, while I would love a light, powerful laptop to edit on I am real comfortable with this system so will do without. If I come to the point where my business requires laptop video editing I will have to look seriously of either changing or adding an alternative editor, but as is my money will stick with MSUS for now.

Paul:

Dang, yours was one I meant to specifically ask about and didn’t.

It can certainly be done in a Linux based system, but I think the issue is demand and you are a lonely voice asking for it so you need to gather up more like thinking buddies to get any movement out of the company in this direction beyond the dedicated ways they allow Alpha channel stuff currently.

Norm:

PS2 is finally moving out of Alpha testing and into beta testing (no idea what the hold up was) so expect some relief there as I saw it working in a beta version during the MGT .

Watched Jörg put it through it’s paces and dawdled a bit with it myself and it was working. And Jörg used it in his challenge video that he created in HD on his personal S4000Pro.

On the other hand, it crashed the system twice when he went to use it during the banquet presentation, so it’s obviously not quite there to be released out of NTSC beta testing yet.

BluRay I already spoke on and it is a hit and miss (mostly miss) issue industry wide.

That said, there was talk about an Arabesk version supposedly entering beta testing that will have BluRay capability. I don’t know where it is at on the 20 minute limitation issue.

The vast majority of current BluRay players are not compatible with burned BluRay regardless of the editing platform so I personally would be pushing the WD TV with a flash drive or USB drive (depending on Project length) as a very viable alternative to BluRay currently for HD end product sales.

You can put together a WD and a flash drive or USB hard drive for less than two hundred bucks and it allows you to store/play not just HD projects, but SD projects, photos and audio all of which makes it a fairly easy upsell or even package inclusion for HD end product sales.

Hans:

I have mentioned both the issue and what Jörg can control and is doing regarding third party software and I was happy to hear about his using what control he has regarding not letting them come out with more until they support what already is out, but if they are not interested, capable or ready to bring new software to our platform do to limited resources, litigation or whatever, I don’t see much of what the company can do about that.

None of those personally affect me and I am not in Germany which is where you are and so that is where you would more appropriately be addressing those issues. I do understand the frustration as you know and if there was a software that I needed that I had been told or led to believe I would have available to me that I paid for I personally would be demanding some sort of compensation in alternative software or some such. (again I can literally feel MSUS flinching so again this is just the opinion of a single user with no official affiliation with MSUS LOL just voicing his personal opinion.

Also, you can Restore HDV backups. You have to do it in Media Manager (Import) and then grab it in Archive (in Bogart).

I learned that one at MGT, it works.

Ian:

Yes, I agree and I addressed that directly with Eric. I told him that I appreciated MSUS supplying us this forum, but if they were going to have an official MSUS representative be active on this BB be it him (not likely as he probably is going to be very busy getting up to speed with this company as president in a trying economical environment after a long hiatus) or Dennis (who I see participating a bit now) or whomever, they need to have the authority or have access to authority to answer questions posed here.

I specifically told Eric that when you have an official “visible” participating on the BB and then they just ignore questions from customers that just flat out is a bad PR policy as it makes customers think the company does not care or does not know the answer, neither of which is a good thing.

And like you, everyone here knows that I am pro-company, but it is because the company has deserved my support.

I am not a fan, I am not a cheerleader, I am a customer.

I will be the first (and probably the most prolific poster LOL) to defend this company when they are in the right, when I feel they are trying and as that has normally been the case during all the years I have been using their products I have been a staunch supporter, but I am not a shill and I will say what I believe to be true be it good or bad, so the company needs to address (or try to address) issues, fix (or try to fix) problems

I don’t know Eric well, but he has a good past reputation in this company and I know Jörg has a very high opinion of him and as I have a very high opinion of Jörg I believe the company will continue to do what is right as they have during all the years I have been using their products.

Alan:

Again, per the geographical stuff, official channels for you would be Martyn Dalby, another man I have great respect for. Not saying don’t talk here as we welcome all our international friends on this BB, but make sure you are also using your official channels when reporting bugs, problems, complaints and heck, why not, even praise. LOL

As mentioned, I think PS2 is just around the corner, but CB Paint is probably not (right around the corner) as that company has it’s own issues unrelated to us (although it certainly therefore negatively impacts us).

As for beta testing, that IS one area that I cannot legally speak on.

I fully agree on the company communication issue as you read earlier. I strongly urged Eric to have the company be more visibly proactive in communicating with their customers regarding ongoing issues.

ROB965:

What makes you think that coming out with the S4100Pro means they have solved all the problems ?!?

I didn’t have to ask Jörg that, as I know it does not mean that.

They have not solved all the problems.

I did mention earlier though why new machines (S4100Pro, S2000) are coming out and it is simply because technology (parts) change and a company can either change with technology or go out of business.

I vote for change.

Again (and again) the real problem is the frustration of having last year’s product and that it still is not functioning properly and I am with you on that, but also as mentioned I think they are about to finally turn the corner on most of that.

Also, the S4000 and S4000Pro are made of industrial quality parts while the S2000 and S4100 are being made of consumer level PC parts.

This will allow them to be less expensive to make and therefore sold for less and because technology continues to always improve in performance they will be a little bit faster, but they will not be "better" in all ways, so it is not like our S4000 and S4000Pro units are now obsolete. And again, all of these models will be using the identical software.

Dixons:

Welcome to the world of Macrosystem editing. And for your knowledge, our manuals have always sucked. If you opted for our editor because of it’s manuals you made a huge mistake. LOL

Jeanton:

Again, the pricing philosophy of MSDE is what it is and it will not be changing anytime soon as this is a core philosophy for this company. Anyone can express their satisfaction or disatisfaction with it, but it is what it is and one either lives with it or moves on.

I don’t know what they do in Australia, but here in the USA they offer a forty percent discount on software for second (or more) units as well as periodical sales of buy two get one free and such.

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There, I tried to answer all the questions to the best of my ability/opinion from talking to Jörg and probably some of you didn’t like the answers, but I wasn’t trying to give answers that you liked, just the answers as I feel they are after talking to Jörg.

I will say in summation I came away from my multiple discussions with Jörg with a much more optimistic attitude that the company is attempting and will succeed shortly in addressing the various problems I (and you) have been experiencing with the new Bogart SE system and S4000Pro and just as important regarding the viability of the company in these economically trying times.

Part of what frustrated me the most is I KNEW the system was not really ready when I bought it and I said to myself and to several others that purchased the S4000Pro to be patient and give the company another month or so, but that went on way beyond the amount of time I thought it would take and that is what has so totally frustrated me.

Ironically, I am now back to saying that exact same thing. I don’t ask for anyone else to go along with that, but that is where I am.

I will say that I have always put my money where my mouth is and I believe what I have said to the point that I am planning on buying another user’s S4000Pro who just wants to give up on it, to have two to use this spring to help me catch up on projects and then sell one in a few months once the software has caught up.

And no, don’t bother to get in line to sell me another as I don’t need more than two. LOL

Time to crash and burn into bed, it's been a long week and I am sleeping in!

[HansJoachimKoenig]

Tim,
many thanks for the time you spent giving us the answers to questions posted.
Let's see what the near future will bring.

[IanPearson]

Tim
Thanks for your efforts in communicating our concerns and aspirations and especially your very detailed and candid reply. I’m pleased you all had a good time at Davenport, despite the current situation.

Hopefully some or most of these concerns will be addressed in the near future.

Thank you once more.

Ian

[normross]

Tim -

Thanks for the excellent report. It contains as much factual information as you were able to obtain in a short period of time, and also contains useful "impressions" regarding many matters which are oftentimes just as important.

I'm grateful I chose the Cassie as my company's editing format when we abandoned linear editing in 1998. One thing that is rarely mentioned is that the storyboard system is a very easy one on which to train employees, and easy for clients to understand as re-edits sometimes become necessary.

Yes, we are struggling here businesswise with some of the "glitches" of the S4000P, but we continue to be fully operational with the 4000 and Bogart.

I'll end with that old familiar saw which seems particularly appropriate in these difficult economic times: "We had best all stick together or we may hang separately."

Thanks again,

- Norm Ross
Norman Ross Productions
Salt Lake

[CKNewman]

Thank you for taking the time to write up the answers to users' questions. I think you've set a record and set the record straight with this one

[PaulBusta]

Thanks Tim, you did a fine job and I'm sure I speak for all who read your report. When I met Jorg at the first MGT I was very impressed with him also, he's a very likeable guy and can he ever put away the food, LOL.

[CasablancaExpert]

Another voice to say thanks Tim for your detailed answers and information that keeps our community up to date!

Also wanted to share that I have a page on my website that provides a review of the MGT 2009. I have also added an online video of the Thursday evening presentation by Jörg Sprave (including his 16-minute personal introduction video). This video is for subscribers of CasablancaExpert.com, but my detailed report is available for all to read -- it can be found here:
http://www.casablancaexpert.com/categories/MGT2009

I will also be adding videos of two of my presentations ('Introduction to Media Manager' and 'Importing & Working with Logos in your Casablanca') for website subscribers by the end of this next week. Videos - on DVD - of the rest of the great presenters will be offered by Jim Meeker.


Regards,
Chet