Another situation

[LouBruno]

Well, thanks for putting a damper on those of us who want our CB PAINT back. You should be backing up the users who paid for an unavailable software regardless if you find it hard, unpractical, difficult or time consuming to use or whatever reason.

You missed the entire point of my post. It is not meant to be condescending but rather factual from a purchaser's point of view.

Think you forgot the other users; Paris, Norm, Jimmy,John, Hans, Ron etc. etc. Go over to YOU TUBE or GOOGLE VIDEO and see more users who never posted. There are users, I know personally, who had CB PAINT on their prior editing system but were never vocal about losing it as they never post here-but lurk. These same individuals privately complained to me why it is not on the Gen 3 system.

No doubt the interface and learning curve looked intimidating which, when opened, the user promptly closes it down.

However, there were three DVD's issued and two manuals plus Chris and I were always willing to help.

I can't begin to tell you how many people contacted me off-line to ask questions about the CB PAINT production and capability.

Do a search also on our BB: Many times questions are asked how to emulate an effect that the "big boys" produce. CB PAINT was the answer, especially the advanced chroma-key portion.

Most of the time, except for wiring , CB PAINT is/was the answer. My Final Cut buddies in my video organization, who look down at us openly and verbally for using a MS editing system, were amazed at what was produced in CB PAINT. This is no longer available.


Rendering was never a major issue when I owned the Solitaire plus as the results were worth it.

Let me see you do Z-spacing with our current softwares....Place a SPARKLE exactly on a wedding ring......draw cartoon animations......we can't do something as easy as that without the use of CB PAINT.

Other current software manufactorer's programs can.

My point is this: I am not shoving this program down anyone's throat. The program is a $950 dollar program plus a $200 dollar Wacom tablet for a total of $1150 dollars lost.

CB Paint is not a practical program for most; that is the bottom line.

I think I heard the sale totals on CB pain to be about 25, a bomb in sales in all regards. Other than Lou Bruno, Volker and Chris Stone (who I think may have left the Cassie family), I couldn't tell you one other person using that program. So, based on that, what's the point in spending more resources on a program used by 25 people? Frankly, of that amount, I bet some once they bought it, never really played much more with it - it simply is NOT practical for those of us who get paid to make video productions and have to watch the clock per hour; as that program was so slow and intensive to run, almost like doing a "Birdie" affect of 20 seconds that took him 3-4 days to do; nice to watch, but not practical in the real world.

[LouBruno]

AND NOW THE E-MAILS ARE COMING:


LOU: "I'm very upset reading John Cleban's post about CBPaint.

Thought we are a family, so "one for all" and "all for one"!!!

Nobody is forcing him to buy or create something using CBPaint!

Everybody can chose the software he likes...He can't dictate
what someone should use or not!!!

His post is an open offense against all CBPaint users just
beeing experimenters.
I created some very good things when I had access to CBPaint,
and I don't let that being critisised by John.
Obviousely he has never seen or noticed what CBPaint can do?

His post is absolutely useless for our attempt to get CBPaint
for Bogart.

Why is he not just quiet if it doesn't touch him?
Just blah, blah, blah..."

[TimKennelly]

Seeing as I was personally invited to speak up on this CB Paint subject, here are my thoughts:

Three points,

One, Lou you hijacked this thread, it was about the lack of Blu-ray menu and chapter capabilities and NEW software, not old software.

Start your own thread! LOL

Two, I don't think anonymous, alleged dialog is credible or even proper to attack or refute John or John's statements.

Either quote with permission or don't use it.

John did not "attack" anyone, he simply stated some facts and his opinion.

I did not see any refutation of the small sales number for CB Paint and that argument is solid even if CB Paint users don't like to hear it.

That does not negate that those who purchased CB Paint should be accomodated or compensated for hard earned money paid to MSUS for the software.

My understanding is the creator of C B Paint (the french company TV Paint) and MSDE are both on better economic standing than they were in the last couple of years so who knows

I read all posts regarding MS software, including over at TVPaint and truthfully you only see a handful of the same people discussing it.

I am not disputing there may or may not be some that do not speak up, but in my opinion, there are in truth not many out there and any customer who paid for CB Paint that does not have the guts to talk publicly about getting screwed on this software and demanding recompense deserves to get screwed.

Three, I believe John was wrong about a couple of things, one, CB Paint was used by most, if not all who actually paid for it as it was quite a financial commitment (the many who had it, like me and basically never took the time to learn the curve got it for free included with the Solitaire purchase and such and we are the ones who had it and never used it) and two, CB Paint was imminently usable with Solitaire and above, comparable to Motion Perfect, high quality rendering and such.

In summation, CB Paint was and is not a good fit for the vast majority of users that MSUS nominally targets which was why it failed financially, but it is certainly a solid and powerful software that can by itself replace virtually all the other dumbed down software available from MS and is imminently usable with Solitaire and above and would hit it's best stride with the gen3 machines.

Those that are disappointed that some of us are not cheerleading the software need to understand that does not mean we are "against" you and nothing said here is news to MSDE or MSUS.

If the software had been a large financial success no one would still need to be asking for it, MSDE would have already made it happen with TVPaint.

The fact is, MSDE is still trying to make it happen with TV Paint (hopefully with success some time), but what financial incentive does TV Paint really have to put in the effort?

Making it available to gen3 owners who already own it would generate no income (outside of possible incentive based ones that MSDE probably cannot afford, but should) and the outlook for new purchasers judging from it's past sales track record is sparse to put a positive spin on it.

Again, none of this is news to MSDE or MSUS so saying it out loud does not condemn the software or lessen it's chances of being made available to gen3 users and none of it negates that the Company owes the software or compensation for the software to those who paid good money in good faith with the companyfor it.

[JohnKleban]

Please don't get so upset Lou, or take things the wrong way; John Kleban does NOT talk with the folks in Germany, nor do I have an ounce of input as to what they choose to do and not do.

I was replying to Franklin and the fact that there are other pressing issues or things most would like to see first, vs. CB Paint. As powerful as CB paint is Lou (I'm not denying that), again, for most people I've talked to, CB Paint was simply to slow in operation. I don't recall Lou, but is there any clip by you using CB Paint in which you have incorporated said clip into a production in which a client paid for? If so, please forward that link to me; all I have ever seen from the software are these little “experiment” segments (as you yourself have coined them).

A fake sparkle on a ring you mention, a matter of taste I guess and to each their own. Again, my reply was about spending resources of money and time on things that appeal to the majority of the crowd; esp. as things seem to be very tight now with this company and the current state of the economy.

Have a good weekend.

ps Paris sold his Cassie gear; he told me in an email from June 2009, moved to FCP; just fyi.

[LouBruno]

Just to clear the air. There is nothing personal here. I am not taking it the wrong way. Problem with postings and even e-mails are the lack of inflections when replying. Not a personal attack but my opinion. I also want to hear from other CB PAINT owners and posted same on the CB PAINT thread and e-mailed an invitation joining this thread to prompt Germany to re-issue CB PAINT 2-again via this thread which incorporated Franklin's post. I felt the original post relates also to CB PAINT.

OK....The demos of CB PAINT were just that, learning to use CB PAINT 2 for projects. I shared my small experimental projects with our members only and not my actual work.

However, I did use CB PAINT in my train show videos for the beginning credits and one example is at : http://www.tmbmodeltrainclub.com/videos

Mine is the INTRODUCTION VIDEO done in CB PAINT using multi-layering, map cut-outs, train cut-outs and the multiplier function of CB PAINT...none of the other videos are mine. I have used CB PAINT for my car shows and moving video montages.

I still feel, and am "sticking by my guns', that the prior investment warrants a return of the software. I was hoping non-users would be encouraged to help us out as well. This was my issue and objective of the posting- nothing more.

BTW: I did have permission to quote the person who e-mailed me but I decided not to get the person involved....but I do have permission in writing to do so. I have also received two other e-mails since then in support. I will not post them w/o permission.

John: Gosh...I thought Paris purchased TV PAINT for MAC and was transferring over to the Cassie. Will miss Paris for sure.

Lastly, I do see the points made about lack of sales. I guess we are going to be left out and only be supported by our own CB PAINT community.

[Franklinbencosme]

FRIENDS Hey everyone has their democratic right to their views on what Plantier practice or not practice as to what is CBPaint, I understand the respective explanations of each one of you, Lou and all those who use this program (I have never touched ) have every reason to be disappointed with this situation of CBPaint, I would be in the same boat with you, John talking like wedding videographer, I think according to the few examples I've seen on YouTube of this program, I would I do not practice the use of approaches.

My this topic was for the BLUE RAY, if that does concern me, as the market increasingly asks you more and more, and I dare not offer it in a safe because you saw the shame with a client.

If you see a STILL MOTION videos for example, we will realize how is changing the editing style, then observe it's simple and not see a single DISSOLVE to put as something so common in the world of any editors.

Are they different? yes, the image quality for a great job of color filters and improvements is Incredibly, they used magig Bullet, which is a reputable company known for its programs Videos.

I return to the point that many people like me working full time, SOFTWARE more practical need to improve the image quality of the videos we made ,....... to be continued

Thanks Franklin...



ps-sorry my english !!...

[LouBruno]

Hey Franklin.....sorry and APOLIGIZE for what appeared to be my "hijacking" of the post. No intent to do so. I wanted to bring out an example of going backwards by eliminating CB PAINT and at the same time supporting your assertion of going forward to the future. Both tied-in.
Again I apoligize.

FRIENDS Hey everyone has their democratic right to their views on what Plantier practice or not practice as to what is CBPaint, I understand the respective explanations of each one of you, Lou and all those who use this program (I have never touched ) have every reason to be disappointed with this situation of CBPaint, I would be in the same boat with you, John talking like wedding videographer, I think according to the few examples I've seen on YouTube of this program, I would I do not practice the use of approaches.

My this topic was for the BLUE RAY, if that does concern me, as the market increasingly asks you more and more, and I dare not offer it in a safe because you saw the shame with a client.

If you see a STILL MOTION videos for example, we will realize how is changing the editing style, then observe it's simple and not see a single DISSOLVE to put as something so common in the world of any editors.

Are they different? yes, the image quality for a great job of color filters and improvements is Incredibly, they used magig Bullet, which is a reputable company known for its programs Videos.

I return to the point that many people like me working full time, SOFTWARE more practical need to improve the image quality of the videos we made ,....... to be continued

Thanks Franklin...



ps-sorry my english !!...

[Franklinbencosme]

Hey Lou, do not need to apoligize for that, the exchange of comments on various topics CBPaint here, in my opinion is valid to mention this situation with this product as if it happened to me with TWIXTOR
which use a lot, I'd be the same right to claim MS germany.

Do not know if anyone of them reads this forum but should, as it is a way to know how customers perceive many things of this great but problematic is the CASABLANCA EDITORS.

Lou So do not worry about what happened, but should we worry what will happen to MS in the very near future....

Thanks FRANKLIN...

[HansJoachimKoenig]

I'm going along with all Lou has posted.
Accuses for user unfriendly support of MS I don't accept.
OK Lou, so we just have to relax and sit back awaiting final news from MS.
And as clockwatcher John posted we are only a minority of 25 users,
so what's it all about.
Maybe we get an userfriendly final answer in 2012?
Or from LOEWE?

[TimKennelly]

Hans,

With all due respect, the fact that MSDE/MSUS screwed those of you who paid good money for CB Paint and were told "all software" would be transferred over to your gen3 machine does not refute any of the simple and factual truths that John Kleban stated.


Unlike many here who are simply video hobbyist or enthusiasts (and nothing wrong with that, I consider myself in that group), John feeds his family with his video business, primarily shooting and creating wedding videos.

In truth, there is nothing in CB Paint that is necessary to create solid video work and it IS counterproductive renderwise, especially on a Prestige, like John is amazingly still using successfully for profit, to use CB Paint for such and that does not even get into the heavy price tag of the software.

I take umbrage at your use of "Clockwatcher" as a derogatory and personal attack on John.

First off, reread his posting without the "CB Paint forever!" attitude and you will see he did not attack you or any other user of CB Paint, but rather simply stated obvious, well known facts about the software and the issue and so does not deserve personal derogatory meant adjectives attached to his name.

He would much rather MS stay current with competitors on new software that the market is demanding like functional Blu-ray products (that we still do not have to date) than concentrate on an software that so few use.

I am fully in agreement with him on that.

I do think MS owes those who paid good money for CB Paint either a functional Bogart compatible CB Paint or recompense in the form of a prorated refund or comparable cost in replacement software, but though.

Second, as John, unlike many of us, does this for a living he must factor in the time it takes (clock watching).

That is simply a good fundamental business practice and certainly not something to be sneered at.

As mentioned, I understand the frustration you and other CB Paint users are experiencing with the lack of any progress on the development of CB Paint for the gen3 machines, but personal attacks on someone just because he is not cheerleading your favorite software is not fair.

I have known all three of you (Lou, John and yourself) for years and have personally shared a brew or two with Lou and John (I would have with you as well, but you live too far away) and all three of you are part of the good guys.

Please keep that in mind.