8mm projector for film transfer

[Bonnie]

Hi,

I am looking at transfering old 8mm & super 8mm using my camcorder. What speed is needed on a projector to get a smooth picture? I have read here that you need a variable speed projector, but I don't know what range of speed I should look for in a projector. Or would any variable speed work okay? Any information about projectors and transfering film would be appreciated. Thanks.

[eriktom]

Try setting your camera shutter speed to 15 or 30 fps.

[jimmeeker]

Hello,

Because the film is blinking on and off at a different rate than what video is recorded at, there will be a terrible
flicker if you run the film projector at normal film speeds of either 18 FPS or 24 FPS. So the reason for needing a
variable speed projector is to match the speed that the light on the screen is blinking and the speed that the
video camera is recording. Changing the shutter speed on the camcorder doesn't help as that just limits the time
that each frame is recorded at. The real important number to pay attention to is the 30 FPS that video is recorded at
in NTSC or the 25 FPS in PAL. No matter which speed setting your camcorder is set to, it's recording either 30 FPS
or 25 FPS.

The important thing is the film projector being variable speed, so that you can adjust it's speed until the flicker goes away.

The film projector has a three bladed shutter that spins in front of the bulb and that blinks the light on and off three times for
each frame of film. In order to create motion from projecting a series of still pictures, which is what movie film is, you need
to have the pictures blink on and off at a rate faster than 50 FPS. Because of what scientists call "Persistance of vision" our minds see stills blinking until they go faster than 50 frames per second....that's the magic speed that our mind's eye begins to see MOTION from STILLS.

So if your film was shot at 18 FPS and you project it at 18 FPS we see blinking stills. But by adding the three blade shutter in the projector to turn the light on and off three times per frame....what we are actually seeing on the screen is 18 X 3 =54 FPS then we see MOTION although kind of jerky. If your film is shot at 24 FPS we have a much smoother image and it's fast enough for better audio reproduction. 24 FPS X 3 = 72 blinks per second. Much faster than the needed 50 FPS.


All of this is fine for film, but trying to shoot either of these with a video camera that records at 30 FPS or 25 FPS will yield ugly blinking flickering video.

WHAT WE NEED IS A MAGIC NUMBER OF FPS THAT GOES INTO THE VIDEO SPEED OF 30 FPS EQUALLY...!

So if we could speed up the 18 FPS film to 20 FPS that would Divide equally into 60 and the flicker will go away. If you could slow down your 24 FPS film to 20 FPS, then the video will be smooth and not have the normal flicker, because 60 is a multiple of 30 and 20 divided into 60 goes three times.


So there IS a magic number. It's 20 FPS on the projector and has nothing to do with changing speeds on the video camera. No matter what the speed setting on the camcorder is set at, it still records either 30 FPS in NTSC land or 25 FPS in Pal land. The 20 FPS will of course be slightly different in PAL land and that is really why you need a variable speed projector in both places. You merely speed up or slow down until the flicker on the video screen goes away. It will be very close to 20 FPS in NTSC.

Another rule to never violate when doing film transfers. Always have a video monitor set up so that you can see the flicker.
It's really terrible to spend hours transferring film by watching the film image on the movie screen and not seeing it on a video monitor and not noticing the terrible flicker when it shows up on video.

It'll also shows you the hot spot in the center of the image. But that's another story for another time.

[jimmeeker]

Bonnie,

I forgot to tell you that coming up next month at the "March Get Together" Tom Koziol will be doing a program on transfering film to video. He has kits and plans for the kits, and even more importantly he has some brand new in a box variable speed projectors that are fully guaranteed. They are getting impossible to find as they stopped producing them over twenty years ago. The one I'm using is over 30 years old now and no longer available.

You can reach Tom by going to: thomasvideostudio@clearwire.net and you can find out all about
the convention made especially for Casablanca Users called the "March Get Together" by pasting this in your browser: www.marchgettogether.com There will be over 25 hours of great training there with Casablanca Users putting on the programs. Also the Casablanca Expert himself....Mr. Chet Davis will be there putting on several programs. You'll also get a chance to meet MacroSystem's very own Justin Philpott , their Technical Production Leader and he does several other important jobs at MSUS as well.

[Bonnie]

Thanks, JIm. That information was very helpful. Now, can anyone recommend a good variable speed projector model that would have the required speed and is reliable? Thanks.

[Bonnie]

Hi all,

Anyone have any experience/knowledge about a Sears(Chinon 2000GL) projector - Good or Bad? Thanks.

[jimmeeker]

Hello Bonnie,

I don't remember that particular model number of Chinon projector. They were a fairly decent machine and certainly would fit the bill for you if it has an actual VARIABLE speed control rather than just two or three pre set speeds which some have. You must be able to control the speed accurately all the way from about 16 FPS up to 24 FPS and a pre set speed won't help you at all.

A brand that is availble from Tom Koziol is the Yelco from Europe and these are new in the box and fully guaranteed. They ARE variable and reliable.

The one that I Use is the Eumig from Austria vintage 1980's is truly variable speed and was made in reg 8mm models, Super 8 mm models and also dual 8/super 8 model both silent and with sound. It's built like a tank and is still working well after all these years. It is all metal were the two listed above have plastic housings.

Probably the Cadillac of film projectors is the Elmo from Japan. The good model of it is the S 1200, a truly wonderful machine, it has been manufactured later and while it's a great machine may be more than you are wanting or needing for transfer work.

If you can find an Elmo used or a Eumig used that still works they are ruggedly built and worth buying used. However they will be much more that the lower priced Chinons and the good value in the new in the box Yelco that Tom Koziol has.

Have you written to Tom to get his price on it?

[BobFoster]

Some Chinon projectors have an internal rheostat that permits speed adjustment. However, that is not adequate for film transfers. An external variable speed control knob is needed. Other variables in the process such as varying line voltage and film loads can require adjustment durning the transfer. I use the Yelco that I bought from Tom Kozoil and it is a high quality projector. It often requires "tweeking" of the speed during transfers. The load of the reel, film resistance and varying temperature of the projector create more speed variations than voltage variations.

You did not state what camcorder type you are using. Standard 1 or 3 chip cameras exhibit improper projector timing by beginning to flicker. This can be monitored better by the undulating movement of a waveform monitor luminence graph than by visual observation. The beginning of the mismatch is not very noticeable at all. HOWEVER, if you are using a CMOS chip camera, (1 or 3 chip) The first indication of speed mismatch is a rolling hum bar type interference that is very noticeable. It will eventually turn into a flicker as the mismatch increases. The CMOS cameras require a much closer monitoring to prevent obvious speed mismatch. Good luck on your film transferring. Be prepared to watch endless hours of out of focus, incorrectly exposed, shaky, zoomy, boring, and once in a while interesting footage.

[yennyb]

Hi Bonnie.

Here's a suggestion.
Don't waste time fiddling with projectors.
I would be glad to transfer all your 8mm and Super8 films to DVD for you.
I can show you samples, if you wish.
Please contact me at: lenvine20@yahoo.ca

[Billy]

Just take them to Walmart and let them transfer them, then put it in your machine to edit. Reasonable priced and good quality