MAJOR TECH ISSUE- Syncing

[Rte80west]

I edit on an S4000 PRO and have the latest OS & Arabesk 5. Recently did a destructive install as well.

Specifically, what occurs is this:

I do a great deal of "sync heavy" work. That is, it is imperative that sound tracks line up with audio. Otherwise, offsets - no matter how slight- will be noticeable in the end product. Stuff like lip syncing and sound effects etc. I never have offsets with native footage, its only with a video clip that I later lay an audio track onto. I still work with tape and I make a habit of archiving to tape as well as burning to DVD/Blu Ray.

So here's the deal: On the storyboard, I VISUALLY ensure all syncs work perfect- dead nuts on every time. Then, when exporting to tape, as I watch on tape, something happens. A slight offset occurs where the video will lag the audio. It's barely noticeable most times but if someone is speaking and it's an audio track that was laid over native footage, you can tell it is off. Barely, but it's off. The odd thing is at times it looks OK in other spots. My guess is that it really is off there too, but not as noticeable b/c it's not as much of a "sync dependent moment". I ALSO have the SAME problem when exporting to DVD or Blu Ray.

So, basically in a nutshell: looks good on storyboard. Offset when sent to tape or DVD. I have tried to "time" the offset such that I make it out of sync on storyboard in the hopes it will line up properly when sent to tape or DVD. But frankly, this is a ridiculous way to work. I invest far too much time in perfecting presentations to not have any reliability or assurance with the final product (tape or DVD). I have owned MacroSystems products since ~ 2000, but if I cannot get a clear answer to solve this I may have to look at other video editing solutions.

Are there settings that are causing this offset that can be fixed that I am missing? I dont think it would be setting on my camera when i export to tape b/c as i said, issues show up when burned to DVD as well. At a total loss here but need an effective answer asap.

[CKNewman]

Where does the audio that goes out of sync come from - the recording that came out of the camera or a separate audio recorder? What kind of camera are you using to record footage and how are you loading it into your editor - s-video or firewire, etc?

[Rte80west]

Hi Craig

Canon HV40 is the cam I record with and am trying to export to. I load into unit via firewire and export the same way. The audio source varies- sometimes from cd, sometimes from the Canon HV40. Basically, I lay it down in the music edit screen and adjust it accordingly so it lines up and sync looks good when playing on the unit.

Then, when exporting to tape or buring to DVD it is off. Again, you only really notice in the instances where a lip sync is occuring so the sync is critical. It's probably there for everything else too but is easier to miss. I do a lot of work where sync to lips is imperative or stuff where music beats hit a certain way- as you probably know, an offset here looks awful even if off by just a fraction.

Thanks for the reply by the way. I have been chasing this for over a year and many projects have suffered because of it.

[CKNewman]

I edit with a Kron Plus so I'm not familiar with Bogart machines. I can think of two potential areas this problem might arise:

If you are using MP3 recordings you may run into problems, although you said it looks ok on the storyboard. When I've recorded the MP3 file to a CD in my computer and then loaded it into my Cassie there is some "drift" before too long. I've played the audio out of an MP3 recorder via its headphone jack so that it would come out at the proper speed or whatever, but on a longer stretch, like a service, there is some noticeable drift - but I can see this on the storyboard. On the PC side there is a program called PluralEyes that syncs MP3s with video footage. If you don't use MP3s then this doesn't apply.

The other thing you could try is to do all of the video work first, and then render it - before the audio gets worked on. You might even try making a scene of the video, using the Clipboard to place it into an empty project, and start the audio editing in that new project. You may want to split the footage to make it easier, but at least the video won't become unrendered.

Does this happen in every project?

[Rte80west]

Craig,

I used a Kron Plus for years. NEVER EVER had issues like this. Ever since I made the swap to HD I have had nothing but problems in this specific area.

Regarding your suggestions: I am open to anything and anything might work but I guess what is stumping me is shouldnt the storyboard show the issue right then and there? I mean, rendering vid & audio separately is a good idea but shouldnt I have already seen an issue on the storyboard? Apparantly not obviously... hmmm... my guess is w/ HD there are strange little bugs that pose issues but trying to track it down is utterly ridiculous. And expensive. And time consuming. Can you tell I'm frustrated? I'm curious if anyone else does work where timing is of the utmost importance (lip sync, timing to music etc) and if they have run into issues? Like I said if Im just laying music over video I may not notice if there is an offset b/c it's so subtle. But in relevant cases it shows up like a sore thumb and it aint pretty. Until I get a concrete answer from Macrosystems, I will probably pursue the second suggesstuion you made which I have done in the past and it did seem to work... but the problem with this is it's ridiculously time consuming and more work than we should have to do given the significant investment in this equipment. Worse, you dont really know iof it worked until the DVD is burned which in some cases can take a LONG time as we all know.

Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to give some input and I will continue chasing this problem and if I get a good answer pass it on.