Understanding Compression of Video

[Rte80west]

A few questions to clarify my understanding:

HD tape loaded to the Karat, edited and then exported via firewire to HD tape = LOSSLESS. Is this correct?

The same footage burned to DVD or Blu Ray DVD via ARABESK - NOT LOSSLESS? Is there less loss with BluRay vs regular DVD? Or is primary difference storage? How exactly does this work?

A burned BluRay DVD loaded BACK into the system via READ DISC and then reburned: any FURTHER loss or will it be the same quality as the read disc? If this same disc is loaded back in, edited further and then reburned via ARABESK, is MORE loss incurred? If so, noticeable?

I want to preserve footage in as 'lossless' a format as possible. I have been down the road of hard drives, flash drives, etc and I just dont like it. Dont trust it. One bad sector or soe inexplicable issue and the entire videochunk is toast. If it worked I'd love it. CConveinent. And I tried saving with .TS format which is supposedly lossless. Had an issue within a month when a file I saved previously (and it worked) jut sytopped working. Forget it. At least in my experience, it isnt reliable.

So I am left with physical media to archive and I want to archive losless stuff if possible. I back up edited projects on HD tape which I am pretty confident is lossless and just want to understand if BluRay is as well and also if loaded back in and re-edited is it still lossless.

Thanks for any insight folks.

[Rte80west]

One quick follow-up:

Why is it that the BluRay DVD media I use cites that it can store 120 minutes of HD video yet when I export via Arabesk to this disc I can get right around 200 minutes. My guess is it is compressed somewhat. Is there any way to avoid compression? I export it in 'High' quality (I believe, not n front of the Karat now, not sure if thats a menu choice)

[IanPearson]

Whilst I am not answering your specific questions on quality here, if you want to keep lossless footage why not use a USB External HDD for this purpose. I have several 1TB drives for this purpose. Below is part of my backup procedures, which describes how to do what you require.

This is in my opinion a much better process for archiving. Admittedly there is the cost of the external HDD, but it is a far more reliable and effective process. Another advantage is you can plug in the HDD to any TV with a USB input and from the TV menu play the films or even the raw material, all in full HD. Many films can be stored on one HDD.

I no longer use DVD’s for home viewing of anything I produce on the S6K.

Ian

2. Backup and Restore Story Board
The storyboard of a project, including effects and added audio can be copied to an external HDD and later returned to the Internal HDD. An HD project can also be saved in a format common to other editing systems (Mode - MTS), which is an H264 file, so not included in this Cassie backup procedure.
HD project “Mode” HDV or SD project “Mode” DV:- the system will render the storyboard , melding transitions, inserts, added audio, etc. which will all be recovered when restored to the Cassie. Therefore further editing may be limited.
SD project “Mode” DV Backup:- There is no rendering, so added audio, some effects and inserts will not be recovered, however this does enable full storyboard re-editing.
Therefore mode selection will depend upon what is required following a restore.

Backup
1. From the main menu, click “Project” to enter the “Project Settings” menu.
2. “Select” the project which is to be backed up, click “OK”.
3. Select “Mode” HDV for an HD project, DV or DV Backup for an SD project.
4. For an SD project also set the “Quality” required, e.g. High
5. Click “Backup storyboard” and select the external destination e.g. Desktop HDD No1 and click “OK”. In the drop down box, “Please choose name”, enter a name for the story board to be backed up and click “OK”. A bar will indicate that the backup is taking place and announce when the backup is complete.

Tip:- To save the original footage, before doing any editing, auto split the original, place all the splits in the story board and follow the backup process. Name this backup (Whatever Raw). When restored, it will already be split ready for editing. Saving the original as one file, when restored, auto split will see this as one continuous scene and the scene will therefore require manual splitting.

[Rte80west]

Ian,

Thank you very much for the reply and your insight. Regarding the HDD reccomend - and I do not mean this to sound confrontational - but I just dont trust drives. I've heard too many stories of folks having issues with them and frankly, I just dont know if I trust them. I suppose solid state drives are better but are very $$$ and still no guarantee. Granted, I realize discs have isues too and if you ask a thousand people you will get a thousand different reccomends. Drives are bulkier too. I wish they would come up with a near guarantee means of archiving. Every type seems to have issues. I was considering archiving to an M Disc mos recently, not sure what your thoughts are on that. Reading up on the method of engraving the disc seems to make practical sense at least and so long as they last on disc, even when that technology is outdated I'd imagine therewould be a way to transfer to some new type of media.

Now in fairness, I DID say lossless and I guess that isnt possible with DVD (I dont think, but that was partially the purpose of the inquiry too). As I mentioned, I recently had issues with a file I archived and have no explanation why. The proces of file backups and drivesis scary because when something goes bad - BANG- evrything is kaput. And you have no clue why. I hate that. I could be wrong, but think tapes and dvds should be less prone to that? Again, not trying to be confrontational, just frustrated in trying to find a reliable solution.

Thanks again for the input, I appreciate it.

[LouBruno]

Why not save your files to a resilient Blu-ray Disc via the option button using RB? Or even MM?
How?
transfer the .TS files to a USB

transfer the files on the USB to a Blu-ray Disc set as DATA using your PC.

DVD discs: Truthfully, if the discs leaks the dye everything is ruined. Blu- ray is more resilient.

TAPE. If tape is used eventually the Mylar shreds. Tape decks will be hard to find in several years.

HDD. Mechanical drives can break

Solid State. A corrupt file can ruin the download on the drive. Probably one of the better ways to save. Electric static issues.

Cloud service. Hope they don't go out of business like happen to me and
lost my photos. Luckily I had a backup.

Nothing here is etched in stone.

[BobFoster]

That's it Lou! If we could transfer to stone, it would be available for hundreds of years.

[CKNewman]

These ISO Certified discs might be worth looking into http://www.isocertifieddiscs.com/compare-iso-vs-gold/

There is a program for the Casablanca called Disc Transfer that does several things including burning uncompressed SD video to a DVD. It only works with SD video. I believe it will record about 20 minutes per disc.

[Montanamartin]

USB has always worked good for me with my Karat. For longer HD projects I use a 2T western didgital. Make sure you plug into the back of your unit for the larger stuff. You have just got to do some experimenting. Believe me I know it can be frustrating!
Kevin Martin

[LouBruno]

I do the same as Kevin. I use a double backup.

Wait till SENTRY is introduced. Awesome piece of software for backup. Can't say anything more right now though.

USB has always worked good for me with my Karat. For longer HD projects I use a 2T western didgital. Make sure you plug into the back of your unit for the larger stuff. You have just got to do some experimenting. Believe me I know it can be frustrating!
Kevin Martin

[Rte80west]

So guys, those of you who are proponent of hard drive backup, do you think archiving to BluRay DVD is not as effective or you just don't do it? Do you watch footage only on computers or do you somehow access the drives via server to watc on TV? Believe me, drives WOULD be convienent I just dont fel they are as reliable. We can put people on the moon, you'd figure they would have a reliable 'guarantee' for backups by now. The double hard drive thing would work but I have so much material it would be too cumbersome to store everything. DVDs in library type cases tke up less room - I just hope they are AT LEAST as reliable.

I appreciate all the input and Lou you've peaked my interest with this archiving software though I'm skeptical...