unwanted border; effects examples

[parsnypsparsnyps]

I'm using an Avio DV /c Smart Edit 4.0c. Two questions...I make DVDs of my work by capturing to my PC and using Nerovision or Sonic to burn a DVD, why do I get a 'border effect' sometimes with transitions created on the Avio? This border appears during certain transition on certain televisions, not the old NEC that I use as a monitor. It's annoying, and virtually ruins the piece because it looks amateurish, and is distracting. In 'project settings' under 'image' 'small normal large' is there a connection between this setting and my 'border' problem? The manual is unclear on what 'image' setting means in practice, and, as an aside, often unclear on other software features.

Secondly, is there a video available to illustrate creative effects -image, transition, audio, titling- that are achievable; manuals just don't cut it. I noticed on the forum there is a category for 'sample videos and highlights', but I hear there's a 'guru' who has some very innovative examples of what the software can do by tweaking and combining effects. I've come up with some stuff accidentally, but find myself often asking, 'how can i do this'. I find the manuals are hard to understand, and a simple video example would clear things up quickly.
I experiment with certain effects but I'm not sure what the right result should be, a video sampler would be helpful to me instead of deciphering text in the manual.
Thanx
paul

[jeffphilips]

When preparing a video for online viewing you need to make a scene of the entire SB and then run it through Black Border effect. The reason why you see it on some TV's not others is because some TV's cover the edge of the screen as in the case with your monitor. I do not have the black box effect, so... What I have found to work for me, is to use the rectangle effect. For some reason, when I use it on the top edge of the video to cover the problem you mentioned, it creates a border around the entire video. I know this sounds impossible, but I have done this with 8 recent videos. It worked every time. Not sure if it is a glitch ,but I am not complaining.

Regarding the instructional videos. You can purchase Birdy's tips and tricks from the website. If you are a beginner to intermediate MS editor, they do give you some great ideas. Birdy does teach some advanced effects and it is well worth it. But while that is the case, if you are advanced, he spends to much time telling you beginner tips. One example he mentions that when you add an effect and it is red, it means that it is not rendered. He also uses a lot of layering. I understand that he needs to mention to make a scene of the effect in order to layer. But some effects are several layers deep. He tells the viewer over and over to make a scene of it. I would think that even a beginner would catch on after 2 or 3 times. These are just a few examples I found annoying as an advanced editor. I ended up fast forwarding through most of the DVD's. That being the case, I still found that the dvd's stimulated my creativity.

Hope this gives you some clarification.

[parsnypsparsnyps]

thank you, Jeff

Birdy's tips and tricks could be what I'm after, do you remember the cost? I recall that most stuff from Macrosystems is overpriced, so if you'd like to sell your DVDs, let me know.

I want to be sure of your explanation for solving the unwanted 'border effect'.
I don't put my videos online, as you mention in your reply, I make DVDs (which show this abnormality). Will your suggestions still work? Assuming that the answer is yes, are you saying that after I capture to the PC, capture back to the Avio, which will yield one clip, instead of multiple storyboard clips as the project on the Avio started? Then use the 'Black Border' effect under 'Special' in the 'Scene Bin'. I tried it on a 2 second clip and saw no difference (on the Avio), but I assume it will mask the 'unwanted border', which is also unseen. Capture this clip back onto the PC, make a DVD, and the problem will be covered?

Was the 'Black Border' effect designed for this specific abnormality, did MS know this to be a problem, and it's a workaround? I just realized that I need only capture the clips and transitions where the unwanted effect appears. This way, capturing the entire project (a 2 hour feature, for example) back and forth is unnecessary. Cool.

And the other method, you mentioned. Use 'Rectangle' effect just on the top edge, and it renders all four sides? How thick must you make the rectangle? I know that the size parameter appears to be in pixels, so how many pixels would cover the 'unwanted border'?

Do you know what the 'Image' parameter means in 'Project Settings', I set it to 'small', 'normal', ''large' and see no difference? Does it apply only during capturing TO the Avio?
Enough questions,
thanx for taking a moment to educate me, I'm very grateful,
Have a nice weekend,
Paul

[jeffphilips]

The price is $50. Definitly a bit high in my opinion. But I do not want to sell them.

You do not need to go back and forth with your video. Once your entire video is ready for the pc, simply make a scene of the entire video(project) and the add the black box effect to the entire project. Once this is done, add it to the story board. You can either delete from the storyboard your original project or keep it and when you go to transfer the new project with the black box effect to the pc, use the range control to isolate the part of the project that has the black box effect. There are several other ways to go about this, but this is just one example.
This effect will work for your tv issue as well. You will not see it on your monitor that you are editing on, because the edges are hidden.

Was the 'Black Border' effect designed for this specific abnormality, did MS know this to be a problem, and it's a workaround?

It is not a problem. Most higher end monitors have a button the will allow you to view the video either with the border or without. This is a way for us to give us the use of both options.

How thick must you make the rectangle? I know that the size parameter appears to be in pixels, so how many pixels would cover the 'unwanted border'?

I didn't take note of the pixels. I tested the sizes using the preview window in windows movie maker, until I got it just right. I then archived the effect. When I need it I just go into the archives.

Do you know what the 'Image' parameter means in 'Project Settings', I set it to 'small', 'normal', ''large' and see no difference? Does it apply only during capturing TO the Avio?

Mine is set to normal. But if I remember correctly, this setting doesn't make a difference in this case. If I am wrong, maybe someone else can shed some light on the subject.

[ChrisStone]

Paul, besides the tips and tricks video's which are indeed very good, there is a whole series of video manual dvd's produced by Justin Philpot from MSUS. Most people I've spoken too find them to be more practical especially for people who are trying to make money at this. They are described here.
http://www.macrosystem.us/Resources/Training_DVDs.html

Check into the "Club Casablanca". For 49 bucks a year you get 50 percent off of all the training resources plus other good benifits. Check it out here.
http://www.macrosystem.us/Community/Club.html

[parsnypsparsnyps]

Thanks Jeff and Chris,

I believe making a 'scene of the entire project' is not a feature of my Avio. It's possible I have it and don't know where to find it. Also archiving an effect like 'Rectangle' is not an parameter of this feature. I'm guessing your model, Renommee Plus, has these advanced abilities.

Paul

[jeffphilips]

The Avio has got to be able to scene the project. That is the most powerful feature of the MS systems.

How to do it: while in the main edit scene, scroll the storyboard so that the first scene is in the grey box. This is the box where you would add effects to the storyboard. Then click on the scene button and click on range. Then click the out trim button and scroll to the end of your project. Click ok and you have now made a scene of the entire project. Now add that to the storyboard and add the black box effect. Render that and you are now ready to output the entire project with the black box effect on the whole thing.
If this doesn't make sense, feel free to call me. It is easier to explain it verbally then to write it here.

Jeff
443-871-5624

[PaulBusta]

Paul, all our machines can make a scene of an entire project,

Go to the first scene in your storyboard, or where ever you want to start.

Then click on "titles" effect.

When that opens click on th "Scene" button which is next to the "Full Size" button.

A box will open that's entitled "Creating Scene".

The "Range" button will be highlighted which is what you want.

Now click "OK".

The "Creating Scene" box will change to show your "In" and "Out" buttons.

Clicking the "Out" button will allow you to scroll your video all the way or to any point you desire in your video.

When you reach the point in your video you wish to stop at, say the end of your movie click the "Out" button and then click "OK".

Now go back to your "Scene Bin" and presto there's your new scene of however long you made it following the steps above.

Now click on "Special" and scroll to "Black Boarder" and click "OK" and the new scene will render with the "Black Boarder" effect, which could take some time with your Avio, especially if your project is 2 hours long.

From one Paul to another....happy editing

[jimmeeker]

OK guys,

I just had to jump in here and correct some factual errors in some of the postings above. Number one, the early operating systems and most of the first Avios did NOT have the ability to create a "SCENE" of any length let alone the entire project. That came with the wonderful addition of the "PRO" pack software later. All the machines from the Kron up had the "Pro" pack as standard equipment but not most of the AVIOs. In recent years the AVIO was sold without the Pro pack and it became an add on software package. It was confusing for a while as it came with some machines and not others. But it (The Pro Pack) is the most important piece of software ever made available to us. It gave us 10 projects instead of three, it had the clipboard feature and added more audio tracks to work with. But the most important one of all was the "SCENE" feature which gave us the ability to layer multiple scenes together and turn the multiple video streams in a single video stream that was actually recorded on the hard drive rather than just series of pointers on the hard drive that were easily lost everytime you changed something.

The second thing is that creating a "rectangle" will not cure the border problem that has been asked about. Because the Rectangle is layer added on top of a clip it is subject to the "Small, Medium, and Large" settings that you find in the set up of the AVIO settings. These settings only affect special effects or title boxes that are layered on top of another image or color effects and focus effects etc. The special effect's overall size in relation to the base scene, is what the small , medium and large refer to. If you select small, there will be some of the image underneath showing around the edges as the small effect is not big enough to cover the scene underneath, and if you select medium there will still be some showing but it will be a lesser amount. If the select "Large" the special effect will be larger and will tend to cover the entire base scene. That is the design of those settings; therefore what ever yours is set to will result in all the effects covering that amount of the scene beneath it. So some scenes that don't have an effect added to it, will tend to not have any unwanted border, but the ones that you have changed a color effect, or sharpness, or white balance, or titles etc, will tend to have a little bit of a border sticking out.

Depending on what your monitor shows, you may or may not see anything sticking out. But if you show it on a different set it may show up all the time. So it is my humble opinion that you should set this at "Large" and leave it there so that you will be covering up the largest amount of your base scene at all times.

The newer software has added a black border effect that you may turn on or off because most projectors now on the market, will show more of the image on the screen than what a normal TV set or regular monitor will show, so this add on border is designed to let you black out all four sides of your projected images so that you don't see the double or triple layers that the regular effects produce when added to you base scenes....that look terrible when projected.

I don't want to step on any toes here but I thought some corrections would clear up a lot of the questions because many of the folks here haven't been with the Casablanca system from the early days to remember when the Pro Pack was not a standard item.

As they say.....we've come a long way Baby!

[TimKennelly]

JIm is correct guys.

As an early Avio owner I was totally geeked when they came out with Pro Pack which gave us the Scene function.

It also upped us from three Projects to ten and added three more audio tracks, auto split and a few other goodies.

However, as Paul lists his unit as an AvioDV it's likely he has that software and is just not aware of it.

Paul, if you have only three Projects and three audio tracks then you do not have the Pro Pack software.

If you have ten Projects (in Project Settings) and six audio tracks (in Audio Mix), then you do have the Pro Pack software active.

There are many ways and menus that will allow you to use the Scene function.

You can go into Transitions, IP Effects or Titling and the farthest left command button in all three menus will be the Scene button.

Back to the actual issue/problem of needing to "cover" that area outside of normal television viewing.

You need the Black Border effect and you very likely might not have that one.

You either need a relatively newer OS (not sure which version included Black Border (currently titled Cover Border) in System Settings.

I am thinking it was about SE4, but not positive.

Or you need the IP Effect Black Border which is in Effects Pack 8.

Without it you will not be able to "fix" this issue for playback on venues such as PC and projectors.

To use it in it's Cover Border state you have to either have it checked during all Storyboard editing or create a Scene of the entire Storyboard while it is checked.

You could Add the IP Effect Black Border to every Scene in the Storyboard and then create a Scene of the entire Storyboard.

Lastly, you could create the Storyboard Scene and then use the Black Border effect in Special to create a Scene with it.

I would suggest that method if you have Effects Pack 8.

Create the Scene of the entire Storyboard by going into Transitions (fx button with two red squares, bottom right), Scene, Range, Ok.

Set the In point all the way left, the Out point all the way right, Ok, then right click your mouse/trackball.

The Scene highlighted in your Scene bin is the newly created Storyboard Scene, go into Special, scroll to Black Border, choose Ok.

With the Avio this is going to take quite a while, depending on Storyboard length as the Avio has a very old and slow processor compared to essentially every other editing device now available to video editors.

The unit is a solid workhorse, but it is very slow by todays standards.