HDV or Blu-Ray?

[tomwflynn]

Hi all,

I just finished my first DV production project and recorded it to HDV tape (yes, the expensive mastering tape). I was surprised at the quality loss; the HDV is notably softer and with less detail than when I play the raw project off my S-4000 Pro. For you old-timers, the difference is similar to the loss you used to see going down 1 generation in analogue video production. Is this a limit of the HDV format, which I understand involves a lot of compression? Would I get better picture quality by burning a Blu-Ray DVD in the machine?

I seem to recall seeing that Blu-Ray discs burned on the 4000 only play back on certain Play Stations, not on most consumer BluRay players. The final destination for my production is kiosk-style playback using a high-end consumer BluRay player. What's my best route to optimum picture quality?

1) Have Blu-Ray discs professionally mastered from my HDV tape (my original idea, but now that I see the quality loss on HDV I'm not so sure).

2) Burn a Blu-Ray disc for PlayStation on my 4000, then have Blu-Ray discs professionally mastered that will play on regular BluRay machines.

3) Burn a BluRay disc on my 4000 that WILL play on regular BluRay machines (yes Virginia, there's a way to do it).

I await the collective wisdom ...

Tom Flynn
Inquiry Media Productions
Amherst NY

[JohnKleban]

Is it a must to have on blu-ray?

Nearly all consumers can't tell the difference if they are watching a SD widescreen production on an upconvert player, or if they are watching true HD picture quality via blu-ray. If it is an option, I'd simply burn your project to a SD disc; no problems going that route and the picture quality difference is extremely minimal. Perhaps an option for you.

[TimKennelly]

Tom,

Your statement is not very clear to me.

You edited a DV Project, not an HDV Project and expect it to look good just because you used a tape marketed as HDV?

HDV tape does not add any improved quality results to footage outside of possibly minimizing dropouts.

Tape itself will not uprez SD footage to HDV resolution and playing back SD footage on most HD monitors will look crappy as they are tweaked for HD/HDV resolution levels.

Regarding "HDV" tape, I have been using standard "Sony Premium DVM60" tapes for two years shooting HDV footage and I am experiencing virtually zero HDV dropouts so I feel the expensive, manufacturer's hyped "HDV" tape is a worthless expenditure.

That said, a SD DV project sent out to tape gives lossless results for SD resolution playback and HDV Project sent out to tape gives lossless results for HDV resolution playback.

[LouBruno]

"I was surprised at the quality loss; the HDV is notably softer and with less detail than when I play the raw project off my S-4000 Pro. "

Something is really wrong if your HDV material looks soft. I am binging material to DAVENPORT that will knock your socks off. My friend, Joe, is even bringing outstanding footage from Bermuda's beautiful beaches........ along with a HI-DEF projector.



In regards to playing HD on a DVD player: MS is working on an ARABESK HD which will play as a AVCHD DVD and not a PS3 type DATA disc on Blu-ray players and computers albeit no menus currently.

http://www.macrosystem.de/e/archives_arabesk43upd.html

[JohnKleban]

My friend, Joe, is even bringing outstanding footage from Bermuda's beautiful beaches...

Hey Lou,

Look forward to seeing you again. Was wondering, and please don't take this as a shot, but any outdoor footage looks AWESOME, even in SD world and $500 cheapo HD camera world; I would like to see indoor HD footage under average lighting, that's what would impress me; great looking INDOOR footage shot in HD.

The new Sony FX1000 (removing the horrible placing of the accessory shoe), seems to be the camera that is pretty close to meeting my needs; many other HD cameras I've seen up to this point simply suck; not the outdoor footage mind you, as I said, that looks great with any camera because of how bright it is outside, but most of my stuff is filmed indoors and I can't accept poor low light capabilities from my cameras.

Catch you in a few days.

[JohnKleban]

S4000 Pro with all of the software and the Twister.

So Tim, are you bringing your Twister to the March Get Together to play with the ladies?

http://www.boardgames.com/twister.html

[tomwflynn]

Hi all,

Pardon my @#$! stupid typo. It's not my first DV project (far from it!), it's my first HD project. 10801 and all that. And to my picky eye, it looks noticeably sharper when I play it back right off the S-4000 than when I play back from HDV. Yes, I need BluRay, because the source material genuinely is HD, plus I already have the grant and that's the playback system I ordered.

Tom Flynn
Buffalo NY

[TimKennelly]

Well something is not right.

You are definitely exporting HDV and an SD version of your project, correct?

It may sound basic, but you have to specifically choose HDV export over DV export.

The most likely is the playback monitoring.

Are you comparing apples to apples, aka: HDMI from the S4P to the monitor and the same from the cam/deck or are you using component, SVideo, etc. from the cam/deck?

And then there are also a slew of possible monitor out settings in most cams/decks on top of that.

[LouBruno]

OK......I have SOME indoor material in HDV via the Canon XHA-1....but not much. It is a dark reception hall. I will point out the secret...which is really common sense.

I am not overly impressed with any of the new HDV cameras indoors except the SONY EX-1/EX-3. Even the newer Z5/Z7 still need to be pumped-up. This will be part of our great group discussion and would like you to bring up that topic as a relay question during the group feedback.

My friend, Joe, is even bringing outstanding footage from Bermuda's beautiful beaches...

Hey Lou,

Look forward to seeing you again. Was wondering, and please don't take this as a shot, but any outdoor footage looks AWESOME, even in SD world and $500 cheapo HD camera world; I would like to see indoor HD footage under average lighting, that's what would impress me; great looking INDOOR footage shot in HD.

The new Sony FX1000 (removing the horrible placing of the accessory shoe), seems to be the camera that is pretty close to meeting my needs; many other HD cameras I've seen up to this point simply suck; not the outdoor footage mind you, as I said, that looks great with any camera because of how bright it is outside, but most of my stuff is filmed indoors and I can't accept poor low light capabilities from my cameras.

Catch you in a few days.

[tomwflynn]

I'm using a FireWire connection to output my HD project to an HD camcorder. In that configuration no further settings should be needed to make the S4000 know to output HD, right? (And I'd notice the render time if it was downcoverting to SD.) Also, I've since made an SD knockdown of my program, and it's way softer than my HDV recording. So yes, my HDV recording is definitely HD, just not as sharp as when I playback straight off the S-4000.

Re my other connections, yes I am using an HDMI connection between my S-4000 and my main monitor. So I'm viewing playback from the S-4000 over HDMI and viewing playback of the HDV tape via component. But for crying out loud, is HDMI *that* much better?

Tom Flynn
Buffalo NY